• This topic has 25 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated sixteen years, 5 months ago past MonicaB.

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  • Nov 2, 2005 at 2:48 pm #1060363

    Gelatin is easier to gear up than RSG, from my feel.

    http://aic.stanford.edu/jaic/articles/jaic37-01-002_2.html
    "…Compared to gelatins and rabbit pare glues, isinglass forms brittle dried films and is relatively moisture sensitive."

    Interesting article talking virtually isinglass (in the Proteins affiliate: )
    http://aic.stanford.edu/sg/bpg/annual/v08/bp08-06.html

    Nov 3, 2005 at 1:17 pm #1060359

    Ane of import point rarely raised in this area is that fish-derived glues, peculiarly those made from the pare, are naturally resistant to microbial growth and this may be a reason for the ameliorate long-term survival of some works (especially in conditions of higher humidity) when other, superficially similar, works have degraded.

    For those who haven't read this before, the bug I have with 'RSG' are that it varies so much, in part because some of information technology is not made from rabbit skin regardless of what the characterization might say, and additionally information technology's not the glue that was used historically despite what some sources might accept you believe.

    Einion

    Nov 3, 2005 at 4:00 pm #1060367

    One important point rarely raised in this area is that fish-derived glues, especially those made from the peel, are naturally resistant to microbial growth and this may exist a reason for the better long-term survival of some works (especially in weather of higher humidity) when other, superficially similar, works have degraded.

    It doesn't accept to take long for 'RSG' to get mouldy either.
    I've had some of my paintings get mould on the backs of them.
    I could prevent information technology with formaldehyde, just then I was told that it would add an acidic component to the glue :(
    I don't work much on canvas anymore :D

    I have found that some acrylic mediums can size very well.
    Though some tin can be a bit too flexible.

    November 3, 2005 at 4:27 pm #1060379

    I know information technology sounds atrociously, abominably, vulgar, but……what's the matter with using exterior firm paint to prime canvases? I see that latex paint has a ph of 7.v to 9.v–does it consume canvas the same as oil paints are reputed to practise?

    Lawrence Humphrey
    Torrelles, Kingdom of spain

    November 4, 2005 at two:14 am #1060376

    …what's the matter with using exterior house paint to prime canvases? I encounter that latex pigment has a ph of 7.five to 9.5–does information technology eat canvas the same equally oil paints are reputed to do?

    This was discussed in some other thread, but why mix systems of paint that are completely different, such every bit latex and oil? Would it not be better to keep your painting organization uncomplicated? Why not simply prime sheet with an oil primer? Employ a neutralizing size to the sail earlier applying the oil primer and you have a uncomplicated cohesive system. Most of Rembrandt'due south canvases had oil primers and they appear to exist in proficient condition for their age.

    Even so, if you want to try latex on your sheet, try it. Time will tell if it is a mistake. Personally, I favor proven systems rather than experimenting with something like the grounds that do not raise the creative value of my work.

    Einion, Nosotros've measured the pH residual of collagen gum alone and together with formaldehyde and as well phenol, in the appropriate amounts, and found information technology does not alter the ph balance of hibernate glue, specially in a gesso or chalk basis. Nonetheless, the real reason for not using hibernate mucilage as a binder for chalk or gesso ground on a flexible support is that information technology is not a flexible footing. Collagen glues work well on rigid supports, only I do not recommend its use on flexible supports, such as canvas.

    George O'Hanlon

    November 4, 2005 at 7:18 pm #1060360

    I know information technology sounds atrociously, abominably, vulgar, but……what's the matter with using exterior house paint to prime canvases?

    Simple answer: they are not designed to final.

    I see that latex pigment has a ph of 7.5 to 9.5–does it swallow canvas the same equally oil paints are reputed to do?

    No, they won't final long enough :D and it's acidity that is most straight damaging to cellulose.

    Einion, We've measured the pH residuum of collagen glue solitary and together with formaldehyde and also phenol…

    Not me, but cheers for the info :)

    Einion

    December 14, 2005 at 10:28 am #1060364

    Merely curious: I was reading in Richard Schmid's book that gesso will absorb colour (and thus stain) so if you want to wipe something off to totally white once you start painting yous can't, so he only uses RSG. Would the fish glue and gelatine exist similar in that quality to RSG?

    Julianne

    Dec xiv, 2005 at 9:27 pm #1060377

    Just curious: I was reading in Richard Schmid's book that gesso will absorb color (and thus stain) and so if you desire to wipe something off to totally white once you start painting you tin can't, so he only uses RSG. Would the fish mucilage and gelatine be similar in that quality to RSG?

    Your question is non quite clear, only I volition try to answer it. Traditional chalk or gesso grounds are unremarkably made with collagen glue, which is hygroscopic and, similar chalk or gypsum, volition blot wet. Fish glue and gelatine, which is made from bovine hide and bones, are likewise hygroscopic, and so they too will blot wet similar to rabbit skin mucilage (RSG).

    George O'Hanlon

    Dec 14, 2005 at x:08 pm #1060365

    Whoops, my profuse apologies (chroma blush, major embarrassment), I only checked and Schmid was referring to canvases primed with white lead instead of gesso, I think I had the RSG in my head since he doesn't employ gesso at all (can you tell I'm new to oils materials?!!) Serves me correct for writing my post in the middle of the nite my time.

    Anyway, thanks for the reply, it's all very informative even though I confused my question with egg on my face! :eek:

    Julianne

    December 16, 2005 at one:03 am #1060378

    The problem with modern Acrylic Gesso is that information technology'southward water based and may cause the grain in the wood to aggrandize, where Rabbit Skin Glue would not. I wish I could provide an aternative, simply I personally don't know of i. I've never tried the collagen glue myself.

    December 17, 2005 at ten:02 am #1060361

    The problem with mod Acrylic Gesso is that it'due south water based and may cause the grain in the wood to expand, where Rabbit Skin Glue would non.

    So there's no water in 'RSG' solutions Beth? ;)

    Einion

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